Curse

Arcador · Jul 22, 2005, 08:35 AM // 08:35

Aye, agree. A good game is game made with passion and thinking - GW is such game - balanced stuff, good PvP and so on.

Games made for the "masses" are money suckers - "get in the game's" best policy - make it lame and make it quick, patches? well you better buy the expansion. (this is overshown actually but you get the point).

Wheere is the fun of a game when you are 200 lvl omgztor and killing 1 lvl newbies in the start area cuz the guards are BUGGED...

You got my point. - Better not so much people, but people that apreciate and enjoy the game.

Alex Weekes · Jul 22, 2005, 10:21 AM // 10:21

I think any good game developer knows that they will never satisfy everyone. There will always be people who buy your game and don't like something about it. If you make a change, there will always be players who preferred it the old way.

I think you'll find that many developers recognise this and work towards making their game as good as it can be for their target audience. Problems can start to arise when the target audience isn't easily defined; it's really easy to define the target audience for a game like Battlefield 2, but not so easy for Guild Wars.

The Red Knight · Jul 22, 2005, 10:26 AM // 10:26

Do away with spirit spamming newb guilds that think there hot shit in tombs =/

Omega_2005 · Jul 22, 2005, 10:38 AM // 10:38

Alex, is there going to be any improvements on the cut scenes, in which the lip-synching works?

It's getting quite wierd that most of the characters speak but don't "speak".... just confusing...

generik · Jul 22, 2005, 11:01 AM // 11:01

Yeah, it is pretty funny, even WC3 has lip synching.. and that is like.. 5 years old technology!

As an aside, I browsed through the artbook today for the first time, and some of the art in it are just beautiful. I hope they'd make downloadable wallpapers for each of those character classes.

The one for the monk.. and the ele.. and heck, even the mesmer, are awesome!

Alex Weekes · Jul 22, 2005, 02:41 PM // 14:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega_2005

Alex, is there going to be any improvements on the cut scenes, in which the lip-synching works?

It's getting quite wierd that most of the characters speak but don't "speak".... just confusing...

Lip synch is unlikely because of the amount of work that would be required to synch with the languages we currently support and any languages we support in the future.

Any work that is put into doing lip synch takes away time that can be spent on other in-game art assets, such as new monsters, new armour and the like.

Xonic · Jul 22, 2005, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega_2005

Alex, is there going to be any improvements on the cut scenes, in which the lip-synching works?

It's getting quite wierd that most of the characters speak but don't "speak".... just confusing...

don't think there is any facial animations on the characters, ie. no lip sync/movement.

one of the reasons I love GW is the excellent graphics with very low hardware requirments so I can play the game on some computers that aren't meant for gaming (for example computers in an office

)

Stev0 · Jul 22, 2005, 05:45 PM // 17:45

Game artists/programmers make good money. Games now gross more cash than the movie industry.

Except for cases like at EA (Slaver mentality ran), I think dev. crews make enough money.

Working for a company that has to create constant updates should expect reactions from their public. If not then there is either ... no interest or no direction.

Algren Cole · Jul 22, 2005, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xonic

don't think there is any facial animations on the characters, ie. no lip sync/movement.

one of the reasons I love GW is the excellent graphics with very low hardware requirments so I can play the game on some computers that aren't meant for gaming (for example computers in an office

)

sucks for you...the computer in my office has triple the processing capability of the AMD64 based machine I have at home....and a video card worth $1100 more than my 6600GT...

going to work makes me feel inferior, however

Divinitys Creature · Jul 22, 2005, 06:45 PM // 18:45

You could say things about any job, like if you look after kids they pee all over you, if you give them a chocolate they want ice cream etc etc. The point is you need smart leadership who know how to make decisions, have their finger on the pulse and can see a solution when it is staring them in the face. Kid A wants ice cream and hates chocolate, Kid B wants chocolate and hates ice cream, they have already peed on you. So give them what they want when you have one chocolate and one ice cream. Like ANET could have given us UAS, seeing how it doesn't affect PvEers. They gave us faction but then gimped it. For no damn reason.

I don't think the developers themselves are at fault, the designers and people who make the decisions are at fault. They were too indecisive and didn't solve problems quickly which could have been solved. Not having UAS or Faction from day 1 was a big mistake. Anyways I think developers who develop the part of the game it's their job to develop are not to blame.

JoDiamonds · Jul 22, 2005, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasareth

It's pretty ignorant to work as a programmer or developer and live in the la la land of "hey, you know what, everyone's going to like my game!" People work for the money and their OWN satisfaction of creating something good, not to be justified by others. Millions of subscribers help line the wallet, but honestly, you think they'd do this all for free?

Uh. Is there a point in there?

1. It's obvious that people know not everyone will like their stuff. So? No one claimed that.

2. Some game developers work for free. Most can't or won't. What's your point? This is like most people in most jobs.

JoDiamonds · Jul 22, 2005, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aniewiel

Being a programmer is like being a teacher: You don't do it for the money. You do it because you love what you do. Being paid for it is the bonus.

That's true for game development in general, but not really true for programmers in general. Most programmers do it because they get paid relatively well to do so. Game programmers (and all other game developers) are an exception, in that they are definitely paid less than non-game programmers.

JoDiamonds · Jul 22, 2005, 06:58 PM // 18:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dax

Actually for most programmers it's just a job, it's the producers, developers and publishers that make up most of the desision making process. They are usually the ones to thank for making the descisions good or bad.

For all developers, it's both just a job and a labor of love. You make less money doing it, but it's still "just a job".

Also, since some people seem confused:

A programmer is someone who writes code. In the general software industry, this is synonymous with "developer", but this doesn't follow through to the game industry. Game industry jargon defines "developer" differently than the software industry at large (yes, it's confusing). This is why you generally won't see someone in the game industry with the job title "Developer" like you might see in other software companies. Instead, they'll be Programmer, Engineer, or anything else besides "Developer".

In the game industry, the developer is the company that makes the game, i.e. the development studio. Following the jargon, everyone at that company is a developer, whether they are programmers, artists, designers, QA, whatever. That's the game industry definition of "developer".

The publisher is the other company in the equation, which generally does all the marketing, distribution, and ultimately holds the purse strings and can actually make nearly any decision they want. The development studio depends on the publisher for money; without the publisher, developers go hungry.

Producer is just a job title. Both publishers and development studios have producers. It's true that producers tend to have more authority for making real decisions.

For Guild Wars, the developer (aka studio) is Arena Net, and the publisher is NCSoft. I'm sure they employ more Producers than necessary, that being the nature of producers.

(gentle jab, folks)

JoDiamonds · Jul 22, 2005, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by generik

Actually.. IT workers and software developers do not make a lot of money for the number of hours they work.

Depends greatly on what domain you are talking about. IT workers and software developers certainly do make more money than many other professions. Some also work long hours, but not all. They aren't the highest paid, by far. Nothing like CEOs or whatnot.

JoDiamonds · Jul 22, 2005, 07:05 PM // 19:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stev0

Game artists/programmers make good money. Games now gross more cash than the movie industry.

This is only sort of true, though I do like quoting that. Games gross more money than Hollywood from direct ticket sales at theatres. This doesn't count things like movie rentals or DVD sales, let alone the merchandising. (Sure, games have merchandising too, but nothing like movies have... so far.)

Quote:

Except for cases like at EA (Slaver mentality ran), I think dev. crews make enough money.

Some do, some don't. Many still work long hours, and many game studios don't last long (like most business, to be sure). It's still a fairly immature industry.

Quote:

Working for a company that has to create constant updates should expect reactions from their public. If not then there is either ... no interest or no direction.

Yes. Anyone making a Massive Online game will expect negative comments and reaction in general. I do think most developers and publishers are aware of this. The public probably isn't though, so the original poster has a point in stating it, at least.

Good on you, Arena Net! You've made a fine product.

Algren Cole · Jul 22, 2005, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoDiamonds

For all developers, it's both just a job and a labor of love. You make less money doing it, but it's still "just a job".

Also, since some people seem confused:

A programmer is someone who writes code. In the general software industry, this is synonymous with "developer", but this doesn't follow through to the game industry. Game industry jargon defines "developer" differently than the software industry at large (yes, it's confusing). This is why you generally won't see someone in the game industry with the job title "Developer" like you might see in other software companies. Instead, they'll be Programmer, Engineer, or anything else besides "Developer".

In the game industry, the developer is the company that makes the game, i.e. the development studio. Following the jargon, everyone at that company is a developer, whether they are programmers, artists, designers, QA, whatever. That's the game industry definition of "developer".

The publisher is the other company in the equation, which generally does all the marketing, distribution, and ultimately holds the purse strings and can actually make nearly any decision they want. The development studio depends on the publisher for money; without the publisher, developers go hungry.

Producer is just a job title. Both publishers and development studios have producers. It's true that producers tend to have more authority for making real decisions.

For Guild Wars, the developer (aka studio) is Arena Net, and the publisher is NCSoft. I'm sure they employ more Producers than necessary, that being the nature of producers.

(gentle jab, folks)

not exactly true. I've been a "developer" for a couple of companies where I had nothing to do with actual programmer.

I was a developer for Akaimi doing scope development
I was a developer for the United States Navy doing scope analysis
I was a developer for Graphis doing interface design and implementation.
and I am currently a developer for First American Corporation doing Network Security Architecture.(which holds true to your argument...however, the other three don't)

generally for software companies anyone involved in the development process...is a developer.

everything else you stated is pretty spot on

Santosh · Jul 22, 2005, 07:14 PM // 19:14

I would go tell these complainers/whiners to GO MAKE YOUR OWN GAME if you think this game sucks. Just GO AWAY!

Theus · Jul 22, 2005, 07:24 PM // 19:24

"Damned if you do, Damned if you don't"

Sir Skullcrasher · Jul 22, 2005, 07:27 PM // 19:27

if i am a developer for Guild Wars... i would make PvE and PvP better than before

JoDiamonds · Jul 22, 2005, 07:28 PM // 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

not exactly true. I've been a "developer" for a couple of companies where I had nothing to do with actual programmer.

Fair enough; I stated that poorly (especially given that I was giving definitions). Programmers are often called developers; I didn't actually mean to imply that everyone called a developer is a programmer.

Thanks for clearing that up.